Well, Conservatives, your man has spoken. Governor Cameron has decreed from on high thou shalt not have a referendum on membership of the European Union. So what are you going to do now?
Cameron, pictured meeting his overlord outside the provincial gubernatorial residence in London, described himself to the Liaison Committee in Parliament as a ‘practical Eurosceptic’ – confirming the extent to which the name has been corrupted, hijacked to become the diametric opposite of what it has always meant and been commonly accepted to mean. He said:
“I want us to be influential in Europe about the things that matter to our national interest – promoting the single market, pushing forward for growth, making sure we get lower energy prices.
“Those are things we will be fighting for but I don’t see the case for an in out referendum on Europe.
“We are in Europe, we have got to make it work for us.”
So because he doesn’t see the case the British public will be denied their democratic entitlement to determine how this country is run. And in case he had not made clear his very personal position would be projected upon the nation he also said:
“I don’t support an In/Out referendum because I don’t think that’s the question people want asked about the EU.”
If Cameron was honest he would tell the British people: ‘What you want is irrelevant. Every decision I make has democratic legitimacy because I say so. I am in Downing Street and you can do nothing about it. I want this country to be part of the EU so that’s the way it’s going to be. If you don’t like it, tough.’
So that covers ‘our most instinctively Eurosceptic Prime Minister for 20 years‘. What about the Europlastics? You know, those Tories who wrapped themselves in the cloak of Euroscepticism to enhance their electoral prospects, but who are nothing of the sort.
The charade continues, as Richard North on EU Referendum points out. How? Step forward George Eustice, Europlastic Tory MP for Camborne and Redruth. George describes himself to all and sundry as a Eurosceptic, but he doesn’t want us to leave the EU. He doesn’t even support the idea of a referendum. He is a co-founder of a group of around 80 Conservative MPs who also claim to be Eurosceptic, but who only want EU reform while Britain continues to be ruled by bureaucrats in Brussels and Strasbourg. Eustice is quoted by the BBC as saying his group would promote a:
“sensible discussion about how we can radically overhaul the EU and make it fit for purpose in the 21st Century”.
and:
“It is important we start to come up with thinking about what the EU will become and how we want to start to change it.”
All those calls for a referendum and opinion polls saying a majority of Britons want this country to leave the EU fall on deaf ears where Eustice and his sidekick and former EU gracy train rider Chris Heaton-Harris are concerned. They want Britain to stay firmly inside the EU and their group is designed to ensure that happens regardless of what the majority of this country’s citizens want. Repatriation of powers has been abandoned and the EU project cannot and will not reverse integration. The group’s aims are on a par with other myths, such as the tooth fairy, Loch Ness monster and the Easter Bunny.
Despite this we see Roger Helmer, a self professed Eurosceptic MEP who says he wants an In/Out referendum – and who is Honorary Chairman of The Freedom Association, the pressure group that runs the Better Off Out campaign – publicly supporting this group of pro-EU reformers.
How can we trust anything we are told by Roger Helmer, the most prominent member of the ‘Better Off Out’ campaign, when he pledges to do anything he can to support a group of MPs that is committed to i) denying the British public a referendum and ii) keeping Britain firmly inside the EU? Maybe now the penny will drop among those who feel this blog has been unfair to Helmer for exposing his stunningly contradictory position.
Of course Helmer could confound this criticism by denouncing Cameron’s stance, urging Conservatives to take on Cameron, and rejecting the Eustice / Heaton-Harris Europlastic grouping which is actively seeking to undermine that which he claims to stand for. So what has the great man decided to talk about on his website the day after Cameron and Eustice’s comments? Fuel poverty. And even then he only mentions one of the EU’s directives and laws imposed on this country that are increasing energy prices and plunging poorer families into fuel poverty. Perhaps it is all part of his strategy.
The reality of the Europhile Conservative position, of supporting ever closer union and denying the population an opportunity to reject EU membership, has been laid bare in words and deeds. It is unambiguous. It is unmistakable. The myth cannot be sustained any longer. So for how much longer will Conservatives who want Britain to leave the EU stay in that Europhile party, kidding themselves Cameron is a Eurosceptic? The fantasy is over.
Update: The excellent Witterings From Witney weighs in with a clinical evisceration of another Europlastic, William Hague.
Autonomous Mind 
“…making sure we get lower energy prices.” Is he having a laugh?
Much as I hate giving a link to this rag it seems it’s one of the only outlets covering this particular piece regarding that famous eurosceptic Douglas Carswell.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/09/07/tory-mp-s-multi-currency-for-britain-proposal-branded-an-institution-destroyer-115875-23401509/
Is this your first sally at reproducing pornographic photographs?
Nailed it. Also love the term Europlastics – Catches the spirit of the modern Tory sceptics precisely.
I’m going to the UKIP conference in Eastbourne, it starts today…
This is the fiurth largest nationwide party in the UK and it’s first policy is immediate withdrawal from the EU.
It has a broadly conservative agenda otherwise, but there is also another interesting policy, which is Swiss style direct democracy, which has just been used twice internally in the last six months.
The leader wanted to have the freedom to negotiate to join or form EU wide parties, some MEP’s were against, it was put to a vote of the membership, the leader lost.
We have also just selected a mayoral candidate for London, and although all of the candidates would rather we didn’t have a mayor (this is an EU region folks, after all!), we selected one of the six and go forward to disappear at the appointed time.
Unless of course more people suddenly wake the f**k up and realise that this, apart from violent revolution or the unlikely internal collapse, is our only realistic chance.
Apologies for the typo’s… iPads Grrr!
BTW: The best political blogs that I know of… AM and EUreferendum actively hate/despise Farage and are either ambivalent or hostile to UKIP, but that does not make logical sense, and I will not personally shut up, even if I do annoy these fine gentlemen.
I wanted to slightly flesh out my last para above…
Violent revolution is not going to happen, the member states of the EU are not and will never be unified as a people, and it is this which holds “the project” together. In the unlikely event that such a condition were to arise, it would be like raising Pan, and as Mrs. Gump said “When you open a box of chocolates, you don’t know what you gonna get!”
And internal collapse? Well recent experience over the Euro is surely a demonstration of the politburo’s ability to stick fingers in ears and sing a little song…
La la la la la….
kenomeat 07/09/2011 at 11:37 pm
“…making sure we get lower energy prices.” Is he having a laugh?
No, he is deadly serious, he actually thinks we will believe him and some of the more dense among the electorate will believe him. He has a gift for telling lies, it is what he is in place to do. Lying and deceiving the electorate has become the norm for the political class and now that skill set is all they have left.When he says “lower” he means higher, when he says Euroscepticism he means Europhillia, when he claims to be a Tory he actually means Liberal, when he says more democracy he means less democracy. The trick is to spot the key words between the link words and then take the opposite meaning to be the correct one.
Cameron is a liar and a cheat and a conman and a fraud, everything he says must be seen in this light. Cameron will not honour any of his promises not least because he has no honour, no morals, no shame. We can rely on Cameron for one thing only, he will betray us because like the scorpion it is in his nature.
“We are in Europe, we have got to make it work for us.”
He is telling the truth here but his definition of “we’ means parliamentarians not the people who live upon the land mass of Great Britain.
He doesn’t work for us and he doesn’t represent us.
“…making sure we get lower energy prices.”
Classic justification diversion tactic employed by snake oil salesmen everywhere. Them only seem to have one script.
Question has to be why enough of us do something about them and stop playing the sham democracy LibLabCon game. Even UKIP are part of that one. The vote was rendered useless by Mr Heath’s traitorous actions. The time for voting has past.
The time for ignorance is here. The government and the EU only exist with our consent. A simple withdrawal of our consent would see them both ended but simple things don’t appear attractive to a 21st century population. However the truth people need to face is this…
Without changes things. Within doesn’t.
And right on cue on comes the self appointed leader of the europlastiques Useless Eustace comes on the BBC toady show and immediately outs himself and his stooges as nothing more than a lackey lickspittle of Cameron. The interview showed that useless Eustace is about as anti EU as that fat traitor Clarke. Oh and BTW strangely you cannot spell Eustace without the EU at the front, says it all really doesnt it?
He claims that a referendum would be a “distraction” and he claims the PM is a eurosceptic(perhaps he meant Euroseptic?). Straight away Euctace out himself, far from being a rebel it clearly shows him and his gang are attempting to manage the growing genuine Euroscepticism in the grass roots, to pervert it to suit the rabid Europhillia rampant within the coalition regime.
From the bubble of Westminster it certainly looked like a great idea to enrol the fresh droids of the fake Tory party to form a fake grass roots organisation to take the sting out of the growing rebellion. The 80 good little Quisling stooges will of course go out of their way to pimp All the talking points fed to them by Cameron and funnily enough this group will get all the airtime they need to become the focus point for the client MSM as they paint themselves to be the voice of Euroscepticism within parliament.
So just like the PM this self appointed leader of the Eurosceptics supports the PM, copies the PMs talking points and echoes the PMs stance on a referendum. Strange kind of dissident movement that supports everything the leadership themselves support isnt it? So dear reader of these humble words, what pray is the difference between this gang of fake dissidents and their fake Tory bosses? Of course there is no difference at all, the only reason the group exists is to be an echo chamber for Camerons deceptions and treachery.
I think I have the perfect protest chant for this fake protest movement:
WHAT DO WE WANT? WHATEVER THE PM WANTS, WHEN DO WANT IT? WHENEVER THE PM WANTS IT!
The straight answer to your question is, “no”: though I’ve never been a member of the Conservative Party. If I were one, the most productive thing I could do now is resign. My contacts with local CP members indicate that even at that level no dissent is permitted if the sitting MP (and probably future prospectives) want to be rewarded with junior office.
good post and continued thread on on the Europlastics AM, but alas it and other blogs covering the subject are all preaching to the converted…there is a kind of resigned weariness about all our efforts to educate and inform and challenge TPB and the lackey’s and lickspittles who support the status quo…..occasionally our blood boils and you should know that the blogs are not the only medium, I post links on FB and talk to people in the course of my work and travels, and they all for the most part agree, but cry out ‘what can we do?’
I can cite two very recent examples of such, firstly my best friend who has always thought being in “the Common market” is great for Britain and swallowed the bait hook lne and sinker and all that we in Britain would lose all our trade with Europe by coming out, slowly over the last twenty years I have strived to educate and inform, directing him to examples and evidence and at times our conversations have become heated and strained our friendship, but he is now finally starting to feel the weight and bear the costs of the excessive regulation he has to comply with in the running of his business and chinks of the light of revelation are starting to come through as it slowly dawns on him it all comes from unelected unnacountable commissioners in the EU whom he cannot challenge or halt or even get rid of.
the second is my local parish councillor, a stalwart of village life and a local dedicated honest principled and tireless worker for the community, but alas he has always been and I regret to say always will be a member of the Conservative party….at heart he is a conservative and I compliment him on that and teh principles assocaited with such and I cannot fault him for that, but he is still a fully paid up member of the party and truly believes Cameron and his apparatchiks are like him CONSERVATIVE in their values, beliefs and principles, I have presented him with countless examples, quotes, and evidence to prove what all the readers here know about the loathsome unprincipled nature of Cameron but he will just NOT ACCEPT what is in front of his eyes, what goes in his ears and suffers from this delusional belief that Cameron et al will just suddenly become the conservatives he (the councillor) is at heart and all will be well….
it is this deaf and dumb mute blind tribal loyalty, this self delusional ostrich behaviour that needs to be challenged…..every day, in every way….until people like our local concillor wake up and smell the coffee…indeed if they ever will
we can only keep hammering away I guess, but every day TPB and especially the EU encroach and chip away at our historic liberties, but what do we have? we have no mechanism, no movement, no focus to garner mainstream audience and eventual momentum to change things in this country….history shows us that some gifted, charismatic, driven, motivated individuals can have an immense influence on not only their country’s but on world history (Jesus, Mohammed, Hitler Stalin et al…)but it also shows us that individuals can die and they need followers, to carry the idea forward…
we lack leadership and its all well and good having an idea (what happened to Referism by the way???) but I fear we are running out of time and soon, sooner than we think we will have the EU politically and financailly integrated and once we have that, with Common Purpose people running the regions and the judges, magistrates, police, armed forces etc all swearing oaths to uphold the treaties of the EU, not the Common Law armed with reams of diktats and regulations and the zeal and perceived immunity to enforce them with fines, imrisonment and even violence we will be well and truly shafted with no way out except force and violence but will enough of us be educated and informed to make numbers count and even if so will we have the stomach for it?
Is Cameron aTony bLiar clone, he is as slick as him as forked tongued as him, he makes me puke as he insults us in his belief that we are so stupid as to believe anything he say’s. like bLiar his interest is the showcase of a supposed leader of men, we had enough years of bLiar to see through DC.
Can I request that he lets me know when he performs this miracle of lower fuel prices this winter and I will have my heating on for more than an hour in the morning and again an hour in the evening.
…making sure we get lower energy prices.
Cameron, you lying piece of half-witted, festering excrement, please do us all a favour; eff off and die.
Sorry about the harshness of the language, AM. I’m sure you understand my frustration with this bubble-headed twerp.
‘I have no mouth, and I must scream.’ This is where we now are as our Jeudas goat politicians sink us into their mire. I also have no Uzi, at the moment.
“promoting the single market, pushing forward for growth, making sure we get lower energy prices.”
Doth the Eton mess bleat.
Well, “single market”, he doesn’t know much about ‘markets’ does he? Britain is in a big communist bloc, whose anti free world market tariffs are strangulating business, making commodities more expensive and therefore creating price hikes in manufacturing costs which is the last thing Britain needs right now.
“Growth”, how the hell can we maintain competitiveness with the rest of the world, if industry and manufacturing in Britain are saddled with the onerous and inanely burdensome costs of the EU bureaucracy? Working time directives, maternity/paternity leave and all the rest of the madness which entail greatly increased business costs.
You see, by BEING OUT – of the “single market” and “pushing forward for growth” would be maximised thus, OUT = benefit to Britain’s manufacturing competitive edge – in the EU we are being asphyxiated.
“lower energy prices”?
Cognitive dissonance, or, he’s taking the ***s or, see a doctor Camoron.
*So because he doesn’t see the case the British public will be denied their democratic entitlement to determine how this country is run.*
They have that choice, and have had it each and every election they could have voted for UKIP.
Cameron is right to say people don’t want a referendum.
Conservatives don’t care ! They are lifestyle people without thinking facilities who are happy to go along blithely with whatever the guy with money says is right so they can rub shoulders with the money man and catch some of the gold dust.
They would sell anything to keep in the cult – and the Conservative Party is a cult. Cameron and Osborne have brought the cult back to its Shire roots with a supreme contempt for those who backed them in Berks, Bucks, Sussex, Middlesex and Surrey.
When the streets fill with protestors it will be middle class cast-offs feeling unloved and abused by the foppish tendencyt they have put in charge of their moribund party. If it does not split into regional baronies it will sink without trace at the polls
There really is no right and wrong in the world at large. It’s all the same. We as humans decide what is right and wrong for us on an individual basis.
Once we allow others to be responsible for our lives we end up with what appear to be ‘collective’ right and wrong assessments of the world at large when in fact they are the assessments of the few who think they lead the masses. This is why the ‘fews’ version of ‘us’ is very different to the masses.
Once we are in the judgement mindset we are all judge, jury and executioner on just about everything that comes our way.
We are trained by the few to take a position on everything thus we get the appearance of a democracy composed of different political parties who are elected by the masses for the benefit of the masses but when the three parties in the game all want the same thing ‘being at the heart of Europe’ that cannot possibly be be called democracy can it?
“Those are things we will be fighting for…” says the man who said, “you do the fighting I’ll do the talking”.
So democracy is now a PM with no democratic mandate discussing our future with the unelected president of a kleptocratic EUthoritarian regime.
Suppose you took part in a gambling session in which the house croupier asked you to pick any one of three “different” cards.
1. Ace – you win
2. King – you win
3. Queen – you the punter loose.
That is 2:1 in your favour.
Unbeknown to you was that all three cards were “Queens” but of different hue.
Would a casino be legally allowed to run such a game. If so, would the punters have legitimate cause to take forceful action on the casino?
If one does not like the analogy to a casino, what we have in the UK is a political cartel.
From Wiki: A cartel is a formal (explicit) agreement among competing firms. It is a formal organization of producers and manufacturers that agree to fix prices, marketing, and production.[1] Cartels usually occur in an oligopolistic industry, where there is a small number of sellers and usually involve homogeneous products.
The sheer number of Tory MPs who are ex-MEPs (with EU pensions to protect) should in itself ring alarm bells. That the Tory Party ACTIVELY encourages young people to be MEPs as their first foray into politics puts the lid on it for me. That seals their ‘loyalty’ to the EU over the UK.
An excellent summation, AM (and so many commenters above).
I loathed Cameron from first sight and I haven’t been disappointed, but I can’t work up much enthusiasm for UKIP, even though I have consistently voted for them in recent elections.
We need a viable alternative. We need it now.
“We need a viable alternative.” I don’t think there’s time Badger. It’s taken UKIP an age to even attract 7% in the latest opinion polls so what chance a new party starting from scratch? Besides, Farage is, it seems, the only voice of euro-realism on TV and radio at the moment and I think we all agree he is an excellent speaker and debater.
Ditto Uncle Badger. Unfortunately the representation we both seek will not be forthcoming.
Strategically, I think a referendum should be limited to asking the electorate: IN or TRADING PARTNER ONLY. This would make it far more likely to gain the desired result and be more attractive to people who might otherwise baulk at whatever ‘OUT’ is presented as meaning.
These options could also be seen as a very reasonable basis on which the British people demand a vote.
Mr Mind
I’m one of your biggest fans but are you are aware thart your site is being attacked from all sides and is fucking up computers everywhere. You must increase security.
The site is on wordpress so if there’s a problem it would be wider than just my blog.
Paul at the top of the thread –
I can give a reference to the Sunday edition of the same rag about the same matter, but from nearly ten years ago:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20011209/ai_n14539281/
“MPs to vote on legal euro
Sunday Mirror, Dec 9 2001
AN ATTEMPT to make the euro legal tender in Britain will be made in the Commons this week.
MPs will vote on a proposal to bring the currency into circulation without the need for a referendum.
The move would leave Britain officially outside the 12-country euro-zone, but is still bound to infuriate Euro-sceptic MPs who fear it is introducing the single European currency by the back door.
Labour MP Graham Allen, a leading campaigner for the euro, will introduce a Private Member’s Bill to give euro notes and coins the same status as those issued by banks in Scotland and Northern Ireland, which are legal tender in shops throughout Britain.
MPs will vote on whether to allow the Bill time to proceed in the current Parliamentary agenda.
Mr Allen, MP for Nottingham North, said: “It is important that we get used to the system that will be in place on the continent from the beginning of next year.”
His Bill would widen circulation to all shops – except those which explicitly refuse to take them.
But the measure is thought unlikely to win time for Parliamentary debate unless the Government decides to back it.”
Quite extraordinary that Carswell is now proposing the same thing.
We’ll see how these “eurosceptic” MPs react when they’re asked to vote for the Bill to approve this major EU treaty amendment agreed on March 25th through European Council Decision 2011/199/EU:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:091:0001:0002:EN:PDF
Although according to Cameron it’s only “a small treaty change”, and he extracted a good price by getting us excused from any further participation in unlawful eurozone bailouts.
It’s certainly interesting that he describes as “small” a change to the EU treaties which is intended to legitimise what Christine Lagarde correctly described as “major transgressions” of said treaties.
In my book, a treaty change which is needed to avoid “major” breaches of the treaties in the future should be classed as a correspondingly “major” treaty change, which is what this is.
David Cameron refuses to offer British people a referendum on EU membership. September 2011
Cameron is scum. Let’s hope UKIP can do something next election.
Cameron is nothing but an EU gauleiter.
Unfortunately the representation we both seek will not be forthcoming.
That’s because you look for a national party when what you need is a “National Party” created as a North and South Party and confederated. Otherwise you run into the London-centric media-obsessed political system.
By creating a Northern Party like the Northern League in Italy you scoop up votes in the North so Labour does not win and where the Tories cannot win to become a power-broker. Then with a Southern Party to scoop up votes on issues down there you have the segments of a majority.
UKIP is too southern – the Labour Party started in The North with LibDems as its alter ego in modern times; both lack credibility and could be supplanted, but all politics emanates from London so cannot run on an Anti-Establishment ticket.
He is a bad man, working for a bad cause, and like the rest of his pals in European capitals, he won’t let on what they are up to. We just this week posted on this topic, and I think it makes interesting reading.
http://rossrightangle.wordpress.com/2011/09/08/the-final-step-to-de-facto-political-union-eussr-power-grab/
Autonomous Mind? Ha!
There is nothing autonomous about doing the same stupid thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
Haven’t you worked it out yet?
ALL politicians belong to the same party. It doesn’t matter who you vote for.
You really are thick aren’t you George.
@ Autonomous Mind
We can all be rude when we don’t put our minds to a decent reply.
Your constant “banging-on” about the evils of the EU are a waste of energy and miss the real target completely. You seem to think that all we have to do is rid ourselves of the EU and everything will be warm and rosy.
It doesn’t matter what you call the system in power because it is comprised of the same stooges who have been hand selected by Central Banks.
The only way to defeat the “system’ is not to pander to it, or attack it. Just ignore it.
And when it comes to being thick it takes one to know one.
George you are thick because you accuse me of missing the very points I am making. Don’t bother trying to label me as rude after you described my comments as stupid and insulted other readers on another thread.
You cannot beat a system by ignoring it. And you cannot expect people reading this blog to give your comments any time when all you do is engage in childish namecalling at anyone who challenges your assertions.
If you can’t be civil then better you run along somewhere your IQ stands out for positive reasons. Somewhere without a radar perhaps.
This morning on BBC 1 Morning News, a minister of the UK. There is no in or out option, only “for the future” there’ll be parlementary scrutiny for new treaties and power transfers. Yeah sure, as if power isn’t transfered on a daily basis. They (politician creed) fumbled us into the EUSSR in every EU country, and now say there is no way out anymore.